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    Judaism-Christianity

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    Yehudah

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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  Yehudah on Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:38 pm

    G-d can do anything He wants. He's G-d.

    The real question isn't whether He CAN change His mind, but has He changed His mind?

    As we have said in the past, The Torah is G-ds' word, period. He said it cannot be changed. That denotes permanency; He says it cannot be changed, so it won't be changed.

    While G-d can certainly change His mind, because His word is eternal, He won't and hasn't.


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    neoinarien

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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  neoinarien on Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:52 pm

    Did you have some verses to cite on the He won't change His mind?

    I think I know what you're going to cite...
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    Yehudah

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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  Yehudah on Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:01 pm

    Do you really need me to cite it? Do we need to continue?


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    neoinarien

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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  neoinarien on Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:37 pm

    Well, if you have a cite that would be great.

    The citations that I am thinking of don't read exactly that way.

    And I'm always up to learn more! cheers
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    Yehudah

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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  Yehudah on Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:55 pm

    shemos lamed daled:kof zyin (exodus 34:27)

    Vayomer Hashem el-moshe, ksav-licha es-hadvariym haayleh ke al-piy hadvariym haayleh kartiy briys vies-yisrayl

    Hashem said to Moshe, "Write these words for yourself, for according to these words have I sealed a covenant with you and Israel".


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    neoinarien

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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  neoinarien on Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:10 pm

    Yehudah wrote:shemos lamed daled:kof zyin (exodus 34:27)

    Vayomer Hashem el-moshe, ksav-licha es-hadvariym haayleh ke al-piy hadvariym haayleh kartiy briys vies-yisrayl

    Hashem said to Moshe, "Write these words for yourself, for according to these words have I sealed a covenant with you and Israel".

    OK thanks! This is what I thought it might be.

    As a note, work is going to keep me very busy through Thursday... just wanted to let you guys know.
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    Arik
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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  Arik on Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:26 pm

    neoinarien wrote:
    Arik S. wrote:
    How can G-d take on a corporeal form? How can the infinite become finite? How can the incorporeal become corporeal?

    Well (keeping things simple for now), how can you or I place limits on what G-d can do? Are you saying it's outside of His power to become corporeal, or partly corporeal, etc?

    Can G-d ever stop being G-d? Can G-d lie? Can G-d become unrighteous>?

    According to the Torah the answers to all this is a simple "No" I will look up texts and get back to you tomorrow.
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    Yehudah

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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  Yehudah on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:57 pm

    neoinarien wrote:

    OK thanks! This is what I thought it might be.

    As a note, work is going to keep me very busy through Thursday... just wanted to let you guys know.

    Thursday was a long long time ago. You still around, Tom??

    Question for you Tom:

    If Torah is not your primary source for everything G-dly, then I have a simple challenge - I challenge you to take the Torah, rip it into pieces, and spit on it (c"v).

    You see, it isn't quite as easy as christins make it out to be. When it comes down to it, you would no sooner destroy or deface a sefer Torah than I would. That being said, and with all of the arguments I faced @Glocktalk, christiantity seems pretty hollow.

    You'll ask, so I'll turn it around: The greek testament means nothing to me...or any religious Jew. Would I desecrate it? While I don't make a habit of doing things like that, to me, it's the source of innocent blood letting for almost 2000 years, and while I wouldn't go out of my way to do it, if I were forced to, it wouldn't be a problem.


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    neoinarien

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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  neoinarien on Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:04 pm

    Yehudah wrote:
    neoinarien wrote:

    OK thanks! This is what I thought it might be.

    As a note, work is going to keep me very busy through Thursday... just wanted to let you guys know.

    Thursday was a long long time ago. You still around, Tom??

    Question for you Tom:

    If Torah is not your primary source for everything G-dly, then I have a simple challenge - I challenge you to take the Torah, rip it into pieces, and spit on it (c"v).

    You see, it isn't quite as easy as christins make it out to be. When it comes down to it, you would no sooner destroy or deface a sefer Torah than I would. That being said, and with all of the arguments I faced @Glocktalk, christiantity seems pretty hollow.

    You'll ask, so I'll turn it around: The greek testament means nothing to me...or any religious Jew. Would I desecrate it? While I don't make a habit of doing things like that, to me, it's the source of innocent blood letting for almost 2000 years, and while I wouldn't go out of my way to do it, if I were forced to, it wouldn't be a problem.

    Haha, yes. But this Thursday is going to be a busy one as well...

    (I still do not have access to my theology books where all my notes are. So I'll content myself to merely address the most recent post).

    Well, the answer is a simple one. Christians believe that G-d continued to communicate and reveal Himself to the world beyond the Torah. While Christians accept and teach that the jewish Torah (varying by the Christian tradition, though I am representing the Catholic view unless I express otherwise) is a 100% valid expression of the Word, they would also accept additional notations.

    Accordingly, it is only natural that Christian would not desecrate any part of the Word.

    Also, try not to lump me in with whatever was going on with "glocktalk" just as I don't lump you in with my jewish friends from the ACLU (yes, I literally have jewish friends who work/ed for the ACLU).

    Now, to turn it around, I would rip apart some kind of hermeneutic text by a rabbi as, while it may contain relevant or noteworthy commentary, it is no where near the same place as the Word itself.

    neoinarien

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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  neoinarien on Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:25 pm

    (now that I have my daughter down and to sleep...)

    I guess I wanted to touch on the "hollow" comment.

    I think the hollowness would be an apt comment depending upon what church one enters. To me, most baptist churches and the left wing mainstream protestant denominations are fairly hollow. These are for different reasons.

    Baptist theology can generally be construed as being thematic in its exposition. The answers are rarely nuanced and are always fairly simple and straightfoward. While this may be great and appealing to many, it leaves the more scholarly mind bereft of the requisite detailed explanation to meet the crush of critical application. The result is that the same core patchwork of answers and viewpoints can be distilled from almost any question put to a baptist. To me, this results in a rather hollow ringing thematic theology that by its very nature fails to take into consideration any number fundamentally important considerations.

    The same can be said of the once fairly rich mainstream protestant traditions found on many street corners (united methodist church, presbyterian church of the united states, and perhaps no where moreso than the episcopalian church). Most of the churches within these organizations, along with their governing hierarchy, have been co-opted and hijacked by fairly secular left wing groups who see the role of religion as some kind of social-charity 501(c)(3) bent on doing worldly good. Consequently, when I visit a church where the above is applicable, I also get the hollow feeling.

    I cannot say the same for traditions with rich, dynamic, internally rational and nuanced systematic approaches to many questions. I would group here the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Jewish traditions who remain loyal to their roots (so I am excising reformed judaism).

    Now, obviously there are going to be outliers. I know I've met more than my fair share of hollow Catholic churches that have successfully been co-opted by secular forces.

    Just throwing this out there for reaction.


    Last edited by neoinarien on Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : few grammar error corrections)
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    Yehudah

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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  Yehudah on Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:33 pm

    neoinarien wrote:
    Yehudah wrote:
    neoinarien wrote:

    OK thanks! This is what I thought it might be.

    As a note, work is going to keep me very busy through Thursday... just wanted to let you guys know.

    Thursday was a long long time ago. You still around, Tom??

    Question for you Tom:

    If Torah is not your primary source for everything G-dly, then I have a simple challenge - I challenge you to take the Torah, rip it into pieces, and spit on it (c"v).

    You see, it isn't quite as easy as christins make it out to be. When it comes down to it, you would no sooner destroy or deface a sefer Torah than I would. That being said, and with all of the arguments I faced @Glocktalk, christiantity seems pretty hollow.

    You'll ask, so I'll turn it around: The greek testament means nothing to me...or any religious Jew. Would I desecrate it? While I don't make a habit of doing things like that, to me, it's the source of innocent blood letting for almost 2000 years, and while I wouldn't go out of my way to do it, if I were forced to, it wouldn't be a problem.

    Haha, yes. But this Thursday is going to be a busy one as well...

    (I still do not have access to my theology books where all my notes are. So I'll content myself to merely address the most recent post).

    Well, the answer is a simple one. Christians believe that G-d continued to communicate and reveal Himself to the world beyond the Torah. While Christians accept and teach that the jewish Torah (varying by the Christian tradition, though I am representing the Catholic view unless I express otherwise) is a 100% valid expression of the Word, they would also accept additional notations.

    Accordingly, it is only natural that Christian would not desecrate any part of the Word.

    Also, try not to lump me in with whatever was going on with "glocktalk" just as I don't lump you in with my jewish friends from the ACLU (yes, I literally have jewish friends who work/ed for the ACLU).

    Now, to turn it around, I would rip apart some kind of hermeneutic text by a rabbi as, while it may contain relevant or noteworthy commentary, it is no where near the same place as the Word itself.

    Very happy to see you Tom!

    I was just commenting to Arik by phone the other day that I considered you a very frum RCC, not like most.


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    Yehudah

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    Re: Judaism-Christianity

    Post  Yehudah on Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:35 pm

    Very good response and I agree with you in a lot of it.

    I'll hit you up later for a better response, I'm on my way to see my daughter.... she's waiting for me.. mustn't keep her waiting!


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