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    Transgressing Shabbos

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    Transgressing Shabbos

    Post  Admin on Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:37 am

    I was told by someone who wasn't observant, that because he was complying with the "spirit" of Shabbos, he was within halachah. He said that even though he works on Shabbos, he does less work, and refrains from eating milk & meat, and is careful not to watch tv.

    I really had to stifle myself.

    I told him that Shabbos is a complete sanctification of Hashems' Holy Name. By doing what you want to do, and not what G-d has commanded us to do, you are totally outside halachah.

    In my opinion, you flip a light switch on Shabbos, you transgress. If it is bshogayg then you don't get a pass, but it is treated differently than being done on purpose.

    So this guy is transgressing Shabbos on purpose and believes that because he is doing less than normal it is okay.

    I'd love to get some Rabbaim to chime in ......as soon as they get registered!

    Arik
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    Re: Transgressing Shabbos

    Post  Arik on Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:57 pm

    I think sometimes this is the fault of those that taught him/her.
    if you go to this site: http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ there is some pretty outlandish stuff. Try mentioning that people should do what they can to be observant and you'll get people jumping all over you about being "too orthodox"

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    Re: Transgressing Shabbos

    Post  Admin on Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:09 pm

    Arik S. wrote:I think sometimes this is the fault of those that taught him/her.
    if you go to this site: http://jewsbychoice.org/bbpress/ there is some pretty outlandish stuff. Try mentioning that people should do what they can to be observant and you'll get people jumping all over you about being "too orthodox"
    Maybe. But the point that I'm making is simple: We are religous Jews. Religious Jews abide by G-ds law. Period.

    If you are a religious Jew, you do what G-d wants, not what you want. If you aren't a religious Jew, you do what you want, not what G-d wants.

    There isn't anything too Orthodox about that. Either you do, or you don't. Simple.

    Arik
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    Re: Transgressing Shabbos

    Post  Arik on Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:03 pm

    It's possible however, that people may not have much in the way of Torah knowledge and may be violating a law and be unaware of the importance of it.

    Yehudah

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    Re: Transgressing Shabbos

    Post  Yehudah on Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:20 pm

    Arik S. wrote:It's possible however, that people may not have much in the way of Torah knowledge and may be violating a law and be unaware of the importance of it.
    Yes, it's possible of course.

    I have a few issues with even that though: If they don't keep Shabbos because they don't know the laws, but they understand that there is a Shabbos. Then they can fall into a category of fools... they should take the time to understand what Shabbos is and it's laws... especially if the KNOW there is Shabbos.

    If they don't know there is a Shabbos, then they are still liable... but at a different level. You'd think that if they have yiras Hashem they'd try and get educated.

    You know as well as I do Arik that there are those Jews who have decided that they want what they want, and it doesn't include being Shomer Shabbos.

    The Rav said something that is very beautiful as well as direct and to the point: Torah is like a fine piece of China. It is beautiful, yet ancient. When people want to do something "different", they break a piece off, because that's the piece they want... now they have not only broken it, but defiled it. The "new" piece they broke off isn't beautiful, it's a shard, a piece. The piece of fine china that isn't whole, is then, less. And that is what happens to Torah IMO.... generation after generation of taking pieces of Torah away lessens it's kedushah...

    That's why we as Jews need to be adamant about keeping it whole and adhering to it as best as we can.

    Hope you had a good Shabbos, gut voch.

    Philip

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    Re: Transgressing Shabbos

    Post  Philip on Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:03 pm

    I am a "Ger in Process" so to speak, and would like to mention my point of view on this topic if that's ok. Those who are Shomer Shabbos are a Great Sign to the Goyim that the Jews are HIS PEOPLE and He has set that Day apart for Him and His people to Rest and be Holy and Learn HIS WORDS! If he doesn't have Shabbos a Jew just blends in with the rest of the worlds people.

    Also, to me, being Orthodox means believing and Observing ALL of Hashem's Laws, and not just picking and choosing what is convenient or politically correct.

    Arik
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    Re: Transgressing Shabbos

    Post  Arik on Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:42 pm

    Good point Phillip.

    Yehudah

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    Re: Transgressing Shabbos

    Post  Yehudah on Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:42 pm

    Philip wrote:I am a "Ger in Process" so to speak, and would like to mention my point of view on this topic if that's ok. Those who are Shomer Shabbos are a Great Sign to the Goyim that the Jews are HIS PEOPLE and He has set that Day apart for Him and His people to Rest and be Holy and Learn HIS WORDS! If he doesn't have Shabbos a Jew just blends in with the rest of the worlds people.

    Also, to me, being Orthodox means believing and Observing ALL of Hashem's Laws, and not just picking and choosing what is convenient or politically correct.

    Exactly.

    What I'd like to see in the future is a migration back to just being Jewish. No more reform, conservative, orthodox, chasidishe, satmar, charedi, etc... just Jewish, either observant or non-observant (of course preferrably observant).

    Eliyahna

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    Right

    Post  Eliyahna on Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:09 am

    I agree if you know what Shabbos is then you know what it is. I have had a few people tell me that it is a greater sin to let your family starve than it is to work on Shabbat. What I reply is that HaShem will not let you be ashamed for following His Torah. He will certainly ensure that another opportunity will be available that does not require transgression!

    Yehudah

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    Re: Transgressing Shabbos

    Post  Yehudah on Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:02 am

    Eliyahna wrote:I agree if you know what Shabbos is then you know what it is. I have had a few people tell me that it is a greater sin to let your family starve than it is to work on Shabbat. What I reply is that HaShem will not let you be ashamed for following His Torah. He will certainly ensure that another opportunity will be available that does not require transgression!

    I believe we all understand that G-d will not burden us with more than we can endure. Hashem commands us to observe Shabbos, and tells us that if we do and do it properly, we will be blessed.

    That means that if we forgoe working on Shabbos, and observe it properly and with the right amount of kavanah, we will be blessed... and any parnasah that we may be losing because we observe Shabbos will come back to us many fold.

    Arik
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    Re: Transgressing Shabbos

    Post  Arik on Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:59 pm

    How do you feel about working out. i.e. calisthenics, jogging, on The Sabbath?

    Yehudah

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    Re: Transgressing Shabbos

    Post  Yehudah on Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:04 pm

    Arik S. wrote:How do you feel about working out. i.e. calisthenics, jogging, on The Sabbath?

    It's mukzah on Shabbos. Instead of exercising your body on Shabbos, you should be exercising your neshamah.


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