Geshmache Yid!

Welcome to our Forum. Please log in. If you have issues, please contact the adminstrator for assistance.
Geshmache Yid!

All things Jewish


    Don't ask, don't tell

    Share
    avatar
    Arik
    Admin

    Posts : 721
    Join date : 2009-08-07
    Location : Pa

    Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Arik on Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:08 pm

    I believe has just been repealed. How do you feel about it? Personally I don't care of a person is gay if he is fighting the same enemy as me. Do you think this will help or hurt or will it probably not change very much in our USAF?
    avatar
    Philip

    Posts : 82
    Join date : 2009-08-11

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Philip on Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:01 pm

    So one can be openly gay in the military now? I think it affects the morale of the straight soldiers....They live in close quarters... shower together etc... They need to concentrate on the mission and not on worrying about another guy lusting after them. Morale is a big issue in combat AND training. There will be straight guys who refuse to have camaraderie and esprit de corps with a gay guy for fear of others misinterpreting the relationship. This affect readiness and combat effectiveness. This has nothing to do with the fighting ability or patriotism of the gays, but everything to do with the morale of the military as a whole. The Military is a killing machine, not a social experimentation project.
    avatar
    Arik
    Admin

    Posts : 721
    Join date : 2009-08-07
    Location : Pa

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Arik on Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:48 am

    I am going to play devil's advocate here and say that that is the same thing that people said about letting black soldiers fight next to white soldiers.
    avatar
    Arik
    Admin

    Posts : 721
    Join date : 2009-08-07
    Location : Pa

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Arik on Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:27 pm

    Personally, the don't ask, don't tell law that Clinton signed into law was a good idea. I don't think anyone should ask since I think what people do in the privacy of their bedroom is their business. I don't think anyone at the same time should TELL. For the same reason. I don't need to know, nor do I WANT to know your sex life. The problem here is it all seems to be nothing but political play. Most people that support repealing the law, how many of them are actually even in the military?

    - think politicizing the issue is a bad idea for the military. I don't see how people keeping their sex lives to themselves in a military setting is hurting anyone. Someone would be like: "I am gay." And I am like: "So what?"
    avatar
    Arik
    Admin

    Posts : 721
    Join date : 2009-08-07
    Location : Pa

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Arik on Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:12 am

    Philip wrote:So one can be openly gay in the military now? I think it affects the morale of the straight soldiers....They live in close quarters... shower together etc... They need to concentrate on the mission and not on worrying about another guy lusting after them. Morale is a big issue in combat AND training. There will be straight guys who refuse to have camaraderie and esprit de corps with a gay guy for fear of others misinterpreting the relationship. This affect readiness and combat effectiveness. This has nothing to do with the fighting ability or patriotism of the gays, but everything to do with the morale of the military as a whole. The Military is a killing machine, not a social experimentation project.


    I agree with the concessions bit, and if the left wingers in this country have showed us anything, is that that is exactly what will happen. I think though, that is the fault of the politicians not the soldiers themselves, gay or otherwise.

    The Israeli military allows gays to serve openly if I am not mistaken and I haven't heard of anyone being killed due to any internal conflicts. I don;t know if you ever served in the military, but here in America, we have many more problems with women in the military than gays. They cannot always physically do what men do, forcing men to often pick up the slack, we have had problems with shortly before deployment, women soldiers finding themselves pregnant and therefore exempt, this happens quite a lot, shorting us with manpower. It also happens when they get pregnant after deployment and let us not forget scandals and lovers quarrels between them. And that has happened.......
    avatar
    Arik
    Admin

    Posts : 721
    Join date : 2009-08-07
    Location : Pa

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Arik on Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:13 am

    Sorry phillip, I think I accidentally deleted your last post Embarassed
    avatar
    Yehudah

    Posts : 466
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 54
    Location : East Coast, USA

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Yehudah on Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:47 am

    My son is deploying for the 3rd time, tomorrow.

    When he is breaking down doors, he doesn't need the distraction of knowing that he has a gay team member. Some might say that it can't be a distraction, after all, who cares right?

    The fact is that it IS a distraction and because that team member isn't like the rest, it causes undue friction.

    The last thing we need is for someone to get hurt or killed because of something like this.

    Don't ask, Don't tell. Nobody wants to know (except for the 3.8% of gays in America).


    _________________
    ...trying to actualize my potential!
    avatar
    Arik
    Admin

    Posts : 721
    Join date : 2009-08-07
    Location : Pa

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Arik on Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:25 am

    Yehudah wrote:My son is deploying for the 3rd time, tomorrow.

    When he is breaking down doors, he doesn't need the distraction of knowing that he has a gay team member. Some might say that it can't be a distraction, after all, who cares right?

    The fact is that it IS a distraction and because that team member isn't like the rest, it causes undue friction.

    The last thing we need is for someone to get hurt or killed because of something like this.

    Don't ask, Don't tell. Nobody wants to know (except for the 3.8% of gays in America).



    I agree 100% with the last sentence of your post, the former part of your post, sorry, we are going to have to disagree with this one. Let me speak from my own experience working in the DOC. I am also a member of the rapid response team. When I am with my team and about to go on, say, a cell extraction, the inmate has smeared his window to his cell with feces, he is behind the door with an improvised weapon and he has soaked his floor with soapy water to make keeping your balance difficult, you have your helmet on, your body armor on, gas mask and you know you may be heading into a situation that you may not leave alive, the LAST thing I am worried about is if my team mate who is behind me is homosexual. Sorry, but that is just flat out unrealistic. Something like that just doesn't enter your mind. BTW, i didn't make the above scenereo up, this happend just two days ago.
    Think of how it is when you are going into a situation when clearing a room when bullets are flying past your head, people are throwing grenades and its 100 degrees in the shade and u have been two days without sleep. Nobody cares who likes to do what in bed. Your life is on the line, and that is what you are focused on.
    avatar
    Yehudah

    Posts : 466
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 54
    Location : East Coast, USA

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Yehudah on Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:39 am

    Don't take my word for it, ask someone who deploys. They don't want openly gay team mates.


    _________________
    ...trying to actualize my potential!
    avatar
    Arik
    Admin

    Posts : 721
    Join date : 2009-08-07
    Location : Pa

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Arik on Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:50 am

    Yehudah wrote:Don't take my word for it, ask someone who deploys. They don't want openly gay team mates.

    Actually I have asked quite a few in fact since almost 1 in every five of my fellow officers are in the military or were and most of them agree, in a combat zone..who cares?
    avatar
    Yehudah

    Posts : 466
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 54
    Location : East Coast, USA

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Yehudah on Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:48 pm

    I've been in close quarters on ships for long periods of time. The showers are open as were the toilet stalls.

    Really want to know which of your mates is gay when you're trying to void or wash?

    5 cruises, more than 3 years of my life on the ocean. I know what I"m talking about.


    _________________
    ...trying to actualize my potential!
    avatar
    Arik
    Admin

    Posts : 721
    Join date : 2009-08-07
    Location : Pa

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Arik on Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:50 am

    A tad bit slippery of you Hudy. We were talking about possible loss of life in combat. Two entirely different scnereos

    David Armstrong

    Posts : 28
    Join date : 2010-11-05

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  David Armstrong on Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:31 am

    Interesting issue. I served with men that I suspected were gay and some I knew were gay, and I was always sort of ambivalent about it. I certainly felt a bit uneasy when I was in open shower bays with them. But in the field they were just another grunt doing the job the same as anyone else would do. And I like to think that as long as they do the job there won't be any problems. It's sort of like this: I would be very uncomfortable if my daughter were to have to shower with a bunch of young men who could look at her as a sexual object, but I would object to her being denied the opportunity to serve. Same thing here. I'd hate to have to shower with some guy a couple of bunks down fantasizing about me, but I'd also hate it if he wanted to serve and were denied the opportunity.

    I liked Don't Ask Don't Tell as I felt it was a reasonable compromise, although I feel that the service sometimes went overboard in interpreting what was "don't tell" and I certainly object to losing soldiers who have proven their ability in action and want to stay in after they have been outed in some manner.
    avatar
    Arik
    Admin

    Posts : 721
    Join date : 2009-08-07
    Location : Pa

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Arik on Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:55 am

    Thanks for the response David. I agree, I think don't ask/don't tell was a good compromise. Like you, I wouldn't want to deny someone the right to serve their country providing they did it without trying to make a celebrity out of themselves and try to turn their sexuality into a publicity stunt.

    neoinarien

    Posts : 107
    Join date : 2009-12-15

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  neoinarien on Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:27 pm

    I was enlisted and would have no problem with people openly serving in the military. In fact, one of my room mates in college was gay (quite gay). He had his corner of the quad and I had mine.

    Do I think that their lifestyle choices square with Church teaching (or my understanding of traditional Judaism): no. In fact, HECK no.

    In the end, and being somewhat ignorant of where popular opinion stands these days (I gather it is largely against), I think this issue is a true red herring. We have SUCH more important things to be dealing with nationally: the budget, abortion, international currency regulation and trade, etc.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Don't ask, don't tell

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:44 pm