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IS it proper during Torah service for a non-Jew to touch the Torah while it is being carried? Someone asked me about this and I honestly didn't know the answer. I don't think it is a big deal if someone is going through conversion. But if it is just a non-Jewish visitor what is your thoughts?
3 posters
NON-Jews touching the Torah
Arik- Admin
- Posts : 721
Join date : 2009-08-07
Location : Pa
Yehudah- Posts : 466
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 61
Location : East Coast, USA
We have a goy who's been coming to shul for over a year.... it hasn't been an issue. The Torah isn't open, it's covered.
Arik- Admin
- Posts : 721
Join date : 2009-08-07
Location : Pa
OK. Someone asked me and I never tjhought of it as being a problem myself, but wasn't sure of other people's opinion.
neoinarien- Posts : 107
Join date : 2009-12-15
Yehudah wrote:We have a goy who's been coming to shul for over a year.... it hasn't been an issue. The Torah isn't open, it's covered.
Which leads me to wonder: what about outside of a service? May a gentile handle, read, etc, the Torah outside of service?
Yehudah- Posts : 466
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 61
Location : East Coast, USA
Not proper or respectful at all. Once it is touched by a non Jew it's considered pasul for use. Because non Jews typically don't understand the honor due the Sefer Torah, not mention it's inherent holiness, it's scroll is not to be touched.
Sorry if this offends, but it's the truth
Sorry if this offends, but it's the truth
Arik- Admin
- Posts : 721
Join date : 2009-08-07
Location : Pa
Neo, even when we read from the Torah, we don't actually touch the letters hence the yad pointer we use.
In reality, what are the chances of a non-Jew coming across a Torah scroll? It's not like they are just lying around in someone's attic.
In reality, what are the chances of a non-Jew coming across a Torah scroll? It's not like they are just lying around in someone's attic.
neoinarien- Posts : 107
Join date : 2009-12-15
Responding to both...
Ohhh, I follow. You're talking about the scrolls. As opposed to, say, any old copy of the Torah laying around Amazon or the box stores. I'm following you better now.
Not a concern on the 'offensive' aspect. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.
Ohhh, I follow. You're talking about the scrolls. As opposed to, say, any old copy of the Torah laying around Amazon or the box stores. I'm following you better now.
Not a concern on the 'offensive' aspect. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.
Yehudah- Posts : 466
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 61
Location : East Coast, USA
"an old copy of the Torah" just laying around on Amazon?
Torah scrolls cost into the $80K range, but any shmuck can purchase a copy of the Chumash or Tanakh for $30.
...just laying around...
Torah scrolls cost into the $80K range, but any shmuck can purchase a copy of the Chumash or Tanakh for $30.
...just laying around...
neoinarien- Posts : 107
Join date : 2009-12-15
Yehudah wrote:"an old copy of the Torah" just laying around on Amazon?
Torah scrolls cost into the $80K range, but any shmuck can purchase a copy of the Chumash or Tanakh for $30.
...just laying around...
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=torah&x=0&y=0
Yehudah- Posts : 466
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 61
Location : East Coast, USA
Yup, told ya.
...got at least 4 copies at home, including a full set of Talmud Bavli, Shulcan Aruch, and countless volumes of other seforim.
...got at least 4 copies at home, including a full set of Talmud Bavli, Shulcan Aruch, and countless volumes of other seforim.
neoinarien- Posts : 107
Join date : 2009-12-15
So I am presuming that the special scrolls are regarded differently than the 'normal' torahs.
Yehudah- Posts : 466
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 61
Location : East Coast, USA
Torah is Torah, but special reverence is given to a hand - written scroll. A sofer (scribe) goes to a special school for years to learn the halachos and proper way to pen a Sefer Torah.
It's actually a Halacha to write your own Torah. The problem is that it must be written properly - and 99.9% of us aren't skilled enough to even attempt it.
It's actually a Halacha to write your own Torah. The problem is that it must be written properly - and 99.9% of us aren't skilled enough to even attempt it.
neoinarien- Posts : 107
Join date : 2009-12-15
Yehudah wrote:Torah is Torah, but special reverence is given to a hand - written scroll. A sofer (scribe) goes to a special school for years to learn the halachos and proper way to pen a Sefer Torah.
It's actually a Halacha to write your own Torah. The problem is that it must be written properly - and 99.9% of us aren't skilled enough to even attempt it.
If you saw my handwriting, you'd understand why my wife doesn't let me sign my own name to just about anything.
Yehudah- Posts : 466
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 61
Location : East Coast, USA